Dating Minton mark - B4 1/2

by Melissa
(Ohio, USA)

Dating Minton mark - B4 1/2 Query: Minton plate mark

Dating Minton mark - B4 1/2 Query: Minton plate mark

Dating Minton mark - B4 1/2 Query:- I have a set of 4 plates that I recently bought online. The seller did not know the maker or date, but I have identified them as Minton, circa 1845, through www.replacements.com. http://www.replacements.com/webquote/M__3082.htm

They are a variation of the cuckoo pattern, with a handpainted turquoise rim. The pattern appears to be stamped, with the colors being hand-enameled.

The backs are marked with an impressed B4 1/2 (the 1/2 is impressed as a proper 1 over 2 fraction), and there is a hand painted '14' in a reddish-brown color on all plates. One plate has an additional hand painted mark of two small vertical dashes with a longer vertical line to the right; this mark can also be seen as two horizontal dashes with a longer horizontal line beneath(and looks somewhat like an emoticon smiley face).

I am attaching a scan of one of my plates, the back mark, and a photo from replacements.com. Their photo is of a cup. Except for the inner rim being a different color and having a scalloped edge, the pattern is the same as my plates (notice that the bird is on the outside of the cup). They also have a listing for Minton 3084:

http://www.replacements.com/webquote/M__3084.htm

This shows the same bird/bush pattern as my plate but their photo is so bad I don't want to send it along!

Can you confirm the maker and date? Hopefully the scans are good enough, if not I will try to get photos instead.

Reply from Peter (admin) below - just scroll down


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Reply by Peter (admin)

To Dating Minton mark - B4 1/2 Query

Hi Melissa

Sorry to take so long to reply, but I have lots of sculpting deadlines at the moment, and have been away too.

I am trying to catch up as fast as I can!

Are you THE Melissa, my friend who answers lots of queries for us?? If yes, thanks for your constant help - much appreciated!

Right, onto the Minton. Brilliant post, thanks.

This is taken from what Goddens says about Minton marks:

From 1842 they went to an impressed 'cypher system' very specific and easy to date.

There may be exceptions I suppose, but generally, this is what you see:

There is normally a set of three marks:

YEAR -- a different 'cyper' or graphic mark for every year for 100 years.

The 'B' shown looks like the mark for 1886.

MONTH -- This is normally a letter of the alphabet - J for January, F for February etc etc (I can't see this on yours)

POTTERS MARK -- I don't have any info on the potters mark, but I guess they are the squiggles.

What else have you found out?

For anybody else reading this page in search of quick answers, please take a look at the following page:

www.figurines-sculpture.com/id-pottery-mark.html

I've written it especially for visitors needing 'fast track' help with valuations and identifications. Here, you can get in touch with a bona fide professional appraiser (one I've checked out myself) and be told if your mark is identifiable by experts, without having to pay any money upfront - a unique service online, and one I've designed especially to protect my site visitors from wasting their time and money online.

I'm no expert, just an enthusiast who's lucky enough to work as an artisan in the industry. I've set this site up as a public forum where we can all help each other out. Often I am helped by wonderful marvelous visitors like Melissa who, like the wonderful pixies sewing the fine thread for the tailor in the middle of the night, goes around the queries answering with expert aplomb! Thanks M and to all you other commenters who chip in to solve our china mysteries.

Best regards,

Peter (admin)
www.figurinecollect.com (These pages show our new English made bone china figurine collection)
www.figurines-sculpture.com (This is my bigger site covering all aspects of fine china making)

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Comments for
Dating Minton mark - B4 1/2

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more Minton info from Godden
by: Anonymous

Hi Peter,

Yep, it's me! I have a great time tracking down these little mysteries, always glad to help!

I checked out Godden from the library, but can't pin this down. I agree, the B looks like the 1886 cypher. Godden says in 1850, Minton started a new range of pattern numbers, starting A1, A2, etc., and then in 1860 new subdivisions and letter prefixes were introduced:

'B' Decorations without gilt enrichment, c. 1870+

Either of these B's would put these plates later in the century. I emailed Replacements.com to ask how they identified and dated this pattern, but no response.

And by the way, no apology needed for the delay! I am the daughter-in-law of an avid figurine collector, who after decades of collecting, has whittled herself down to buying *only* Royal Worcester. Makes me wonder if she has any of your pieces.
Dating Minton mark - B4 1/2
by: Peter (admin)

Hi M

Thanks again. I don't have that info about the A1 etc in my Goddens - maybe you were looking at the later revised edition. I'll re-check. I'll try to re-check my Kovel's too.

Is your Worcester collecting family member in the US or UK? (I think you are Ohio, aren't you?)

Peter
Godden and Minton
by: Melissa

I've got a 1968 edition, p. 24. He makes a couple of references to a planned sequel for Minton 1850+, as well, but I can't find any such book. Maybe he never published it after all.

Collecting relative is in the US, her parents emigrated from Birmingham. I've picked up my taste for English china from her.

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