"Pottery Mark Query - British Kite Mark - R and IV with 5, 1, M, and 3

by Rick

"Pottery Mark Query - British Kite Mark - R and IV with 5, 1, M, and 3:- Tea cup set, cups have Triangle mark with IV on top, 5 at 12:00 position, 1 at 3:00 position, M at 6:00 position, and 3 at 9:00 position.

I believe this is a transfer pattern with deer, wild boar, horn, and foliage.

Plates have the same kite mark, but also a crown above circle enclosed in wreath. The wording below the crown appears to be "Horgia" the first letter is hard to read. It couldd also be "Horcia". At the bottom of the circle the letters appear to be H&C

Could someone with knowledge of marks and patterns please let me know what year this could possibly be, and who the possible maker is?

Sorry, the pictures are a bit blurry as taken from my phone, but the mark is visible.

Thanks!

Rick

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The forum Help Elf says:-

Anyone needing to decode their ceramic registration pottery marks can go to the registration pottery mark decoding page of www.pm&m.com (opens a new window).

For general free advice on how to research your collection, Peter wrote this page:

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H.E.

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"Pottery Mark Query - British Kite Mark - R and IV with 5, 1, M, and 3

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H & C Circle mark with crown above
by: Rick

Thanks for posting my question Peter, I really appreciate it. Since I asked this question I have taken better pictures of the item and mark, not sure if it is possible to update my page but in case there is the pics. are attached.

Hopefully someone will let me know the approx. year and maker, I read your online reference to marks but was a bit confused as on the 3:00 postition there is a number 1 and not a letter, I thought most had letters.

Thanks again!

Rick

H & C Circular Garter Mark WIth Crown Above
by: Peter (admin)

Rick

I think you are mistaking an old fashioned capital 'I' with a number 1.

I = 1872.

This old system was mad. Bureaucracy gone mad, in fact. Typical of the English Victorians!

How to think about it, to simplify it is this:-

British registration kite marks explained (simply)

There are 2 numbers and 2 letters. The letters are the only things of any real significance as they are the year and the month. The year is obviously most important, and that is either on the top or the right. They had a brilliant plan (not!) to change the year from the top to the right in 1868.

So with these British registration kite marks, look for the year letter being either on the the top or on the right.

If the two numbers are on the top and on the left, then this is later (after 1868) and therefore the year reference letter is on the right (as in your case above). If the two numbers are on the right and on the bottom, then the letter on the top has to be the date (and therefore it must be before 1868).

A brilliantly simple system (not!)

Now, onto the H & C mark.

This particular H & C mark (there are 3 others mentioned in Goddens) I think this mark may belong to a little known company called Hope & Carter who were in business in Burslem from 1862 - 1880. I have never seen an example of their marks before - not even in Goddens encyclopedia, so below I am publishing your higher res photo for all to see. Thanks for sending it in. If anyone can confirm this is a Hope & Cater mark, please confirm by posting.

Peter (admin)
p.s. Incidentally, my own view is these pieces are stunningly beautiful examples of the applied ceramics art of Staffordshire of the mid-Victorian period.

H & C pottery Mark

Hope & Carter
by: Rick

Hi Peter,

I really appreciate your feedback on these pieces, I agree they are beautiful, there is also some hand painting if I am not mistaken as the paint is over the glaze. Thanks for clarifying the dating. It is amazing that these are almost 140 years old!

I think you are correct about the maker H&C, since I posted this I've done a bit more research online and found references on the H&C mark.

There was also an online auction I found which had a bowl in the same pattern.

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/english-brown-transfer-bowl-borgia-c-1862-80-h

Also, that what I thought was the wording "Horcia", is actually "Borgia". I'm not certain but this may be the pattern.

Thanks again for your help, this is a great resource and site!

Rick

H & C Borgia china
by: Anonymous

I have an entire set of Borgia china (plates platters covered casserole cups saucers tea pot coffee pot etc. ). Do you know the value? Same year "I" 1872. Excellent condition. Thanks

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"Pottery Mark Query - British Kite Mark - R and IV with 5, 1, M, and 3

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"Pottery Mark Query - British Kite Mark - R and IV with 5, 1, M, and 3