'R' Pottery Mark (or 'J' combined with an R) on Porcelain Sconce

by Kim
(Ithaca)

'R' Pottery Mark (or 'J' combined with an R) on Porcelain Sconce Pottery Mark Query:- hi: I have searched the web, AND all the books in the library and cannot find the mark on this piece of porcelain. I have asked experts on line and now have three different answers!

I have gained a ton of respect for those who identify makers marks, and, honestly, find that this "hunt" is actually a fun adventure.

This piece of Meissen like porcelain, in PERFECT condition, has been in my parents home since they were married 62 years ago. Due to its origin, and because it is not her style, my mother always hated it, and finally slipped it out of the house to me a few weeks ago.

It was given to my mom by her mother-in-law, and given to her by my father's first girlfriends mother ( i am presuming pre WW2 since my father was in that war ).

At first glance the maker's mark looks like an "R", but on closer inspection it looks like a J combined with an R.

I am trying to upload two pics - one of the piece and one of the mark.

Reply from Peter (admin) below - just scroll down

HOW I MADE MONEY FROM BITS & BOBS OF OLD CHINA .....more

Reply by Peter (admin)

To:- 'R' Pottery Mark (or 'J' combined with an R) on Porcelain Sconce pottery mark query

Hi Kim

Fascinating story!! Thanks for posting it. Of course the hunt is fun. We are all hunter/gatherers - that's why we collect things ;-)

And thanks for using a second form to upload a picture of the sconce itself. I am very grateful. It's always useful to see both the pottery mark AND the piece.

I'd love to hear what the three different experts said and who they were - can you let me know?

While I can only guess what they might have said, to my eyes your sconce doesn't have the finesse I would associate with genuine Meissen production. It almost exactly reminds me of the style of work in this Meissen porcelain mark query which had a really badly faked crossed swords pottery mark. It looks almost like the same hand which made both.

While you're clearly enjoying the hunt - which is what it's all about!

Hopefully hear from you again soon.

Best regards,

Peter (admin)

p.s. The following page is a 'must see' if you are researching fine china - for value and identification:-

Researching the identity and value of antique and vintage fine china.

Please post comments below which you think might be helpful……


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Further comment by Kim

hey peter:

yes, i also saw the "fake meissen" post and thought this looked a lot!! like that.

The other experts said:

1. Rosenthal (wiw2u.com)

2. "Your piece is German but not Rauenstein but one of the smaller Dresden makers. I forget the name right now. "

3. Joseph Robert (france)

i don't want to quote from where on the last two without permission....people are funny about that....

I am beginning to think one must be a bit OCD to be into this.. i don't know WHY i feel like a dog with a bone over this piece of porcelain with most likely little to no $$ value..


Kim


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Further comment by Peter (admin)

Because it's fun: the thrill of the chase!

LET'S GO THROUGH THE SUGGESTIONS ONE BY ONE:-

1. Rosenthal.

No possible connection between a Rosenthal mark and your mark. Not even close as far as I can see. The item is SOOO not Rosenthal.

The only connection is Rosenthal now owns Hutschenreuther (since 2000). Between 1857-1920 Hutschenreuther had a mark which had a JR mark - nothing like yours, before their famous lion mark became the standard see:-

http://www.int.rosenthal.de/index.php/page/1096/newspage/english_Sammeln_Tipps_1381.htm

I can't see that wiw2u.com would suggest such a connection unless they didn't actually see the mark or the item. They are an excellent outfit.

2. Small Dresden maker. Highly likely.


3. Robert Factory, Marseilles.

The factory of Joseph-Gaspard Robert known best for for its faience and and porcelain with elaborate floral decoration. Trouble is most of this stuff is in museums as they stopped making in the 18th Century. You would be rich if this was theirs. They were renowned for VERY GOOD QUALITY. Does this suggest a bad rip-off of Meissen to you?

Their various marks sometimes bear the monogram of the initials of the manufacturer which joined the J and the R like yours, more often it was a single letter R. Anyway, the Robert factory initials mark always has as a dot above the J and is totally unlike the long stroke of the R on your mark.

I can't see any expert having set eyes on the sconce and the mark suggesting no. 1 or 3. That's my view as a non-expert. Please advise more on the wiw2u.com suggestion??!!

Peter (admin)