W.L Pottery Mark - fits the criteria for original..is it?

by Kevin Craig
(Opotiki, New Zealand)

Hi
I bought this vase in a shop where everything was very very old. It has the blue W.L...the metal looks very old..What is this worth do you think?


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W.L Pottery Mark - fits the criteria for original..is it?

by Kevin Craig
(Opotiki, New Zealand)

Hi
I bought this vase in a shop where everything was very very old. It has the blue W.L...the metal looks very old..What is this worth do you think?

Reply from Peter (admin) below - just scroll down

HOW I MADE MONEY FROM BITS & BOBS OF OLD CHINA .....more

Reply by Peter (admin)

To:- W.L Pottery Mark - fits the criteria for original..is it? Query

Kia Ora Kevin

Beware - this undoubtedly handsome piece is Wong Lee fakery!

See below for more info.

Best regards,

Peter (admin)
www.figurinecollect.com (These pages show our new English made bone china figurine collection)
www.figurines-sculpture.com (This is my bigger site covering all aspects of fine china making)

W.L. Pottery Mark - William Lowe ("Court China") or Wong Lee?

by Valerie Gomez
(London, England)

W.L. Pottery Mark - William Lowe ("Court China") or Wong Lee? Query:- I have a piece of pottery. has nice pale colouring with 4 long legged birds up the central stem of the piece. a bowl or dish at the top. crown has marks 1885 WL. not sure of the artist. help please.

Reply from Peter (admin) below - just scroll down

HOW I MADE MONEY FROM BITS & BOBS OF OLD CHINA .....more

Reply by Peter (admin)

To:- W.L. Pottery Mark - William Lowe ("Court China") or Wong Lee? query

Dear Valerie

You have given very little to go on (no photo - the above picture is from my own photo files) so I will use the clues to have a best guess.

William Lowe, an English maker from 1874 to 1930, typically has the initials W.L.L. "Court China", not just WL.

Wong Lee, however, a modern Far East maker, has the misleading date of 1895 (not 1885) and has a red/pink mark with a crown. See the above link in Kevin's reply to my page Pottery Marks - Fakery Or ‘Influence’.

Sounds like you may have a Wong Lee rather than a William Lowe, but as I said you have given me very little information to work with.

Hope this information is helpful.

Best regards,

Peter (admin)
p.s. The following page is a 'must see' if you are researching fine china - for value and identification:-

Researching the identity and value of antique and vintage fine china.

Please post comments below which you think might be helpful……

Pottery Marks - Fakery Or ‘Influence’

by FRANK STEVENS
(UK)

WL 1895 - A Genuine Fake Mark By Wong Lee Not a William Lowe:- China Marks Article - Thank you, Peter, for an interesting pottery marks general information article. I have a some further knowledge which I can pass onto your visitors in the area of English ceramics.

Looking at the WL 1895 on very distinctive well made and old looking wares put me in mind of a superb irony. This mark is that of modern day Chinese factory Wong Lee. It is trying to look very European in an antique sort of way (1895 etc etc).

For centuries we were trying (and failing) to find the secret of Chinese porcelain so as to make ceramics which looked like it was Chinese. The Japanese had learned the secrets from captured Korean potters, who had learned the techniques from the Ming Dynasty Chinese potters.

The pottery marks which are most often found on English china wares are not necessarily the be-all-and-end-all of indicating excellence. For example, many good pieces are actually un-marked, and others have pottery markings to the highest degree – but are faked.

The point to remember though is there are two types of mark which can always be regarded as more or less secure and impervious to forgery.

They are:

The impressed, incised, or embossed mark put on the wares, when the paste is wet, before the first firing.

The under-glaze marks, often in blue, applied to the body when in biscuit form

The more likely to be dubious pottery mark is that which is put on over-glaze, especially in gold or enamel.

So factory ceramic marks are all of great significance. For example; the in-house artisan’s which are evident on, say Worcester chinaware or Bristol where each painter was assigned a number.

Remember too that the crossed Saxony swords of Meissen do not necessarily denote a Dresden piece because the same symbol was appropriated by great makers Derby, Coalport/Caughley, Bristol and Worcester.

The blue Worcester crescent is found at Bow and Coalport/Caughley, and the wares themselves are not dissimilar.

You can trace the origin of the Worcester square mark to a Chinese seal of 1662-1722 and almost identical square devices can be seen on Derby, Chelsea and Bow wares.

Is this fakery? Of course the answer is no.

There is a dividing line between fakery and ‘influence’. One is fine and dandy, the other is not.

Is the WL mark of Wong Lee fine? The 1895 just pushes it over the edge of not being fine.....

FRANK STEVENS.

ps. The picture shown above is an example of a true fake. The ceramic mark has been passed off at auction as a genuine William Lowe (an English maker based at the Sydney works, Longton, Stoke-on-Trent, Staffordshire, England 1874-1931. It is made by modern maker Wong Lee and the '1895' is apparently there only as a celebration to denote the end of the war between Japan and China. Does anyone else spot the irony of the modern day china makers faking western makers whilst, for centuries we were trying to fake there wares?

Frank

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Keywords:- A Genuine Fake Mark By Wong Lee Not a William Lowe

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No valuations are given in this section. Anyone needing valuations, please go here:-

vintage and antique china values page. Valuation appraisals and pottery mark identification research are two different things.

More tricky Pottery mark identifications are handled here:- my vintage and antique pottery mark identification page.

For general advice on how to either price up your collection or find replacements for it, we wrote this page: The Searching Secrets To Finding Your China Replacement Online ….more.

For specific advice on how to ‘save a search’ on eBay (for pricing or finding your desired item) go here: How to easily find replacements, prices and information on vintage and antique china online ..... more.

Hope this helps.

Best regards

Peter (admin)