A Real or Fake Villeroy & Boch Pottery Mark?

by Thor
(Roch, NY U.S.A.)

A Real or Fake Villeroy & Boch Pottery Mark?

A Real or Fake Villeroy & Boch Pottery Mark?

A Real or Fake Villeroy & Boch Pottery Mark?:- I have a Villeroy & Boch dinner plate that I'm curious about. Is it genuine and if so what would be the date of manufacture. After looking at loads of V & B logos I cannot find one like the one I have. Also if anyone knows what is the pattern called. Thank you for your time. Pictures enclosed include the front, full back, logo closeup and a GF with M below impression.


Thor

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Peter (admin) says:-

Actually, when you study the Villeroy & Boch marks, of this type (Mercury), they vary quite a lot. In other words there are several different versions.

I have never actually seen this one before, but remember, they had their head office in Dresden for a long period - and the Saar region was seeded to France after the war, then voted itself back into Germany in 1957. So lots of confusion there for poor old V & B, one of the oldest surviving a very best firms ever to grace planet earth (in my humble opinion).

This style of V&B porcelain mark is commonly known as the "Mercury mark" (after the God Mercury who is normally shown with a winged cap, a staff with snakes entwined, a banner with the words Villeroy & Boch and a circular mark denoting the factory name). This mark was in green as standard, but also stamped in blue
and black. V & B are known for marking their wares with characteristic German efficiency and precision. However, there are many variations, as I say and not all are fully understood or cataloged.

The big picture is that of faking. I can't see any reason why someone would particularly want to go to the trouble of wanting to fake a V & B mark on such a standard plate and pattern. Not that it's not very nice (very art nouveau looking), but it's not as if it's a an imperial vase from the Ming court.

What would anyone seek to gain from this type of faking? It is the fodder of ordinary supply distribution, not a 'valuable' item as such.

Don't get me wrong, Villeroy & Boch are renowned for their award winning initiatives in design and quality of make, being the standard-bearers for forward thinking businesses for the past 200 years or so. And I am not saying V&B services are not worth good money at auction, but I can't see any particular commercial advantage to faking a plate of this bulk standard nature. However, I am always open to be re-educated by someone who knows about the infamous fake V & B trade.


For more information on the history of V&B marks go to pm&m.com on this page:-

Villeroy & Boch Marks and History

For valuation advice from a professional, go to this page:-

Peter's vintage and antique china values page

Comments for A Real or Fake Villeroy & Boch Pottery Mark?

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Villeroy and Boch Dresden
by: Sandy Bernard

Your Mercury Mark is dated 1874 to 1909.

This is a valuable plate because of its scarsity!

We English bombed the factory into the ground in
1945. Sadly,all of the rcords were lost in the devastation.

My husband is German and has been trying to research
a 68 piece dinner service that I have.

He has offered to look for the pattern name for you with the records office in Germany.

If you would be kind enough to contact me
at

bernardsandy@wanadoo.fr

and send me some picturs of your plate we
could then proceed, if you are in agreement.

Sandy

===========================================
Peter (admin) says:-

Many thanks for this very kind offer, Sandy. Please could you be so kind as to post any results and findings here on this site.

If you need any help doing so, just contact me at

peter@theclayartist.com

Many thanks again

Peter (admin)
it is real
by: Anonymous

wrong!
Made in GErmany was added 1935 so this is dated 1935 until the factory was destroyed in 1945
'Made in Germany' on Villeroy & Boch marks
by: Peter (admin)

Hi

Just have to step in as moderator at this point.

The last anonymous person to quote

"Wrong!"

...with reference to the term "made in Germany" not being used before 1935 I am not sure is correct.

Firstly the comment was rather rude and abrupt - something not welcome in these forums.

Secondly, they left no name, so, again, anonymous comment is not welcome. Neither is blanket quotes with no references or citations to prove or back up what they are saying.

Third, as I say, I'm not at all sure the statement is correct.

I am no expert on Villeroy & Boch marks, so straight away I looked through my German marks book Rontgen's. We know that Rontgen isn't always 100% correct, but we'll cut him some slack due to the vast amount of useful material catalogued. He makes no mention of this 'made in Germany' date of 1935 for V&B Dresden output.

I checked www.porcelainmarksandmore.com and straight away saw the use of the 'made in Germany' mark (at least on Mettlach wares) on a mark patented in 1913.

This would make total sense as it would have been in accordance with the import laws of both the USA and UK of the time.

There is no reason why the Dresden factory of V&B, which was acquired in 1856, would not have used the 'made in Germany' from the late 19th century also.

As I say, I don't have any hard evidence of this, it's just common sense.

I would have to see proof positive of this strange 1935 date to change my mind.

If a commenter makes sweeping statement, please back it up with a bit of further detail or evidence or references, so we can all share in the knowledge.

And please don't be anonymous when you make such a comment.

Peter (admin)
Villeroy & Bock. Pottery Mark.
by: Trev.

May I but into this conversation, Please, as a Complete Novice. I have in my possession A crescent Shaped dish Marked Villeroy & Bock. Dresden. The mark Is very similar to the mercury mark shown with the exception of the lower writing. The pattern on the dish Shows what i believe to be 8 cornflowers and 2 cornflowers in profile. The flowers are blue in color with pinkish centers. All of the flowers are joined by a scrolling set of leaves in green. The base has a small indentation on it, but because it is glazed, I think it may be a stilt mark from when it was fired.There is a slight amount of damage to the dish, but it still looks nice. trevg8@hotmail.co.uk
Villeroy & Boch ceramic bowl.
by: Bobby

I picked up an old ceramic oblong bowl with lid in perfect condition at an estate sale and discovered on the bottom the Villeroy & Boch pottery mark.. it has what looks to be the word Vaudrevange under the marking and the word Luxemburg under that .. I am trying to determine the date this piece of pottery was made .. Any idea is greatly appeciated .. bobbeadrake@comcast.net
Weymss Ware
by: Neil

Do people who are interested in VB Dresden know that Robert Heron from Kirkaldy in Fife, Scotland, brought six decorators back with him to his pottery (Robert Heron and Son)in and around 1882. He was visiting Dresden and noticed VB's white ware with fruit and leaves and also chickens on it with green banding on the rims and lured the decorators away to produce a very similar line in Kirkaldy. The Scottish ware was supported by Lady Grosvenor and the company named it after her family castle at Wemyss, thus Wemyss ware came into existence. Karl Necola, a Bohemian, was the only one of the six to stay in Kirkaldy as he married in the town. The others returned to Germany after a short period. Does anyone know when the VB fruit and chicken decoration started in Dresden?
help with mark
by: Anonymous

I just bought a small brown teapot with infuser. On the bottom is a G with V&B underneath, surrounded by MADE IN LUXEMBURG. All letters are incised into the ceramic. No other images. I can't find anything like the mark during my brief looking online. I'm happy to send the image if anyone can be of help. Thanks George gg0904@q.com

I have one like yours
by: Amy

I have a rectangular bowl with the same mark, the only difference are the marked letters, I see only a G and I can see what seems to be the "G" plus an "E" or "F"and a "J" overlapped, the G and the J have the same depth, the E is not so deep., my pattern is all in blue and has some differences with yours, in the back it has 508 M in blue. At least we both have the same Mercury seal, I´m almost sure that this piece has been in my family since 1950, but if anyone else has some more information I also would appreciate it.
Real or fake villeroy and bosh pottery mark?
by: Janice

Thank you Peter for the information
about the mercury mark and picture.I have been collecting beach found pottery for twenty years
Mostly in Key West or St.Auustine Florida.

I love my bits of pottery.Imagine some as old as the 1600 's.
You have solved another part of the puzzle.So much fun!
God Bless you.
Janice
Seeking help re V&B Dresden pitcher
by: Suzanne

I have a small (about 2.5" high) pottery pitcher, possibly earthenware, with a V&B Dresden Made in Germany mark on the bottom. I haven't found a match to the mark; it has the Mercury crest but the band with DRESDEN in it on the bottom is plain (no embellishments on it above MADE IN GERMANY. It is sort of a cream color with three bands of blue stripes (3 stripes per band, close together) and about 1/2" between the bands. Bands are raised. Can anyone tell me anything about this piece and its value?
Variations on the Dresden Villeroy & Boch Mercury backstamp mark
by: Peter (admin)

Hi all

Not sure how Sandy got on with her research. It's been a while now and perhaps you might have some news, if still following here.

The strange thing to think is that the WW2 bombings are still effecting us so sharply today. There are very few definitive listings on this Dresden mark as to where, how and why it was used. All official records gone. Unless Sandy can unearth more in her sleuthing.

So meantime, I got a query from a lovely museum in Fort Lauderdale Florida (the one place in the US I know quite well having friends there - spent July 4th on Miami Beech - quite an experience for a Brit!)

Here's the query:-

Hello Peter

I am looking for some expertise. We are a small historic house museum and someone has offered a donation of a small Villeroy & Boch teapot. It is a pretty piece and would look very nice in a china cabinet but I want to make sure it is from our period before I accept it.


villeroy-vb-dresen-pottery-mark-stamp-teapot



I have researched the maker's mark as best I can, and it is similar to the stamp of 1874-1909, but in gold/brown colored text, and Dresden instead of Mettlach. Also, I have seen the pattern identified as Copenhagen but this teapot has a smooth surface instead of a ridged one.

Our house was built in 1901 and is the home of Fort Lauderdale founders Frank and Ivy Stranahan. Generally, we interpret the time period of 1900 to 1920, so if 1874 to 1909 is correct, it would fit in nicely. Anything much later would not.
Would you be able to help me confirm the time period and pattern?

I have attached two photos.

Thanks in advance for any advice you may have

Deb

Deb Wood / Records and Collections Manager

Historic Stranahan House Museum
335 SE Sixth Avenue, Fort Lauderdale, Florida 33301
www.stranahanhouse.org

My reply went like this:-

Hi Deb

Lovely! My understanding is this Dresden version of the mark is from 1874- 1909, so you are good. I have not come across any evidence to contradict this.

Thanks for the enquiry. With your permission, I will add your pics to the thread.

Best regards etc

So, the pics I have on record are as follows:


villeroy-vb-dresen-pottery-mark-stamp
Please help!
by: Astrid

Hello I have purchased a villeroy and noche jar with a lid. It has a mercury marking with the words Villeroy & Boch Mettlach Made In Serre Carola. There is another word which I think says Karisruhe (?) or maybe Karisrure. The jar is colourful with blue and red lines. I'm really interested to find out more information about it , I have tried looking for this particular marking but I can't find it anywhere ! Thanks in advance
V.B. "Made In Germany"
by: George Bartholomew

"Made in Germany" was added due to the British "Mark of Merchant" law of 1887.

From what I have gathered from several sources, the Mercury mark was used from 1874-1909 ONLY.

Therefore, if the Mercury Mark variation has "Made in Germany" added to the backstamp then it must have been manufactured sometime between 1887 and 1909.
V&B Dresden mark
by: Estelle

I have a similar Dresden mark, minus the text underneath, on a Jugendstil ceramic tray. The mark is in brown, with 2449A underneath. For different reasons - in this case the lack of an obvious collectors' market - I think it's unlikely to be a fake.
help identify a toy dinner set
by: Inge Anhorn

I have a child's dinner set with the mark as described on the teapot above the time frame fits, it was my mother's toy set (Dresden brown typical onion pattern she was born 1903. how can I find it's value? I have never seen it anywhere. thanks, inge
Villeroy & Boch NEW
by: Daniela

Help me, please! I’ve bought 2 white soup tureens from a person who was selling only V&B ware, but home I saw that on one of my tureens there wasn’t any mark. Can it be possible to be a Villeroy & Boch product without mark?
Thank you in advance!
My Villeroy & Boch Hallmark NEW
by: Marietta

I have a very large pitcher that is hallmarked with a picture of a house with a colinder standing in front of it. Can you tell me what period this is from?
Interior Designer NEW
by: Daniel Fulton

You have a real v&b article. It was made in Dresden Germany. There should be a code that easy enough to figure out the year one example I’ve seen on early 1900,s were as follows (190). 5 this meant it was made in 1905. I hope this has helped in some small way.
Searching for any information
by: Nicola Mason

Hello,
I'am searching for any information on this collection made by Villor & Broch,Dresden
Made In Germany.
I cannot make out the Other mark but it appears to be something like.....Riwmmb???
It consists of a ceramic tray, four (shot cups/egg cups)? and a large decanter with a cork sealed stopper.

It is hand painted,with flowers,love hearts and the decanter has a man and woman arm in arm ? Wedding/Anniversary or Valentines theme??
I have searched soo many sites to place this item.
One of the back stamp bears a No1. mark too? and the matching Ceramic Tray also had an imprint mark, LM is part of that imprint

I have photograph's, although I'm unsure how to upload them on here?

Kind Regards
Nicola













































Is it real Villeroy and Boch?
by: Marina

Hello dear all! I like very nice pottery in antique shop with Villeroy and Boch mark. Would like to ask your idea if it real and from which year it can be? Would like to post photo here, but could not find possibility yet. Please advise if its possible to upload photo from mobile phone. Thanks in advance.
3 V & B serving dishes, one with a lid
by: Jackie Bogaert

Hello, I have 3 Villeroy and Boch serving dishes and another with a lid. The markings underneath say; Villeroy-Boch, EMIN, Mettlach, Geschutzt. I have searched all over the internet and come up with nothing close. Perhaps someone here can help. I would greatly appreciate anyone pointing me in some direction as to their value.
Sincerely,
J Bogaert
jjbogaert@yahoo.com
Tureen
by: L. Paiva

Hi there,

I've searched and searched and unable to find this marking for a tureen said to be over 100 years old.
Tried sending pics, but unable to find where on this message.

Marking on bottom:
Villeroy and Boch
London
Mettlach
Geschutzt

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

LeAnn

Villeroy and Boch Mark
by: Jonathan

Hello everyone,

not sure if this thread is still active. But in case it is, I just bought a nice little white and purple transferware cream jug with what seems to be an interesting Villeroy and Boch mark. In cursive, it has Vaudrevange, and underneath V&B. There is an impressed number 2 relating to the potting I guess. I couldn't find this mark online, I wondered if anyone can help?

best wishes

Jonathan

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