"Y" with a small "s" inside Laurel Shield Fine Porcelain mark

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"Y" with a small "s" inside Laurel Shield Fine Porcelain mark

by JODY WEST
(CROSBY, TX, USA)

"Y" with a small "s" inside Laurel Shield Fine Porcelain mark

"Y" with a small "s" inside Laurel Shield Fine Porcelain mark:- I bought a tea service at an antique shop in Crosby, Tx. The set consists of 12 cups/saucers, teapot, sugar dish & creamer. I love the set because its so pretty. Would just like to know if its a 'new' set or actually an antique.

Jody.

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Peter (admin) says about:- "Y" with a small "s" inside Laurel Shield Fine Porcelain mark

Hi Jody

Great photos - nicely merged into on uploadable image. Sweet little unusual item. I bet the tea set is very pretty indeed.

I never saw this mark before, and its not in my books, but rather than write it off as 'unknown', lets look at the clues:-

The mark uses most of the devices known to man....
the crown, the shield, the laurel cartouche, and the letters which say "we don't have to put our full name on because everybody has heard of us", or rather... "We can't put on our actual name because people will know we are not an upmarket maker - but perhaps we can bluff this one out..".

Far East makers often invent marks like this..... as European looking as they can possibly muster.

It flags up - just in case we didn't know what we were looking at, the fact that it is 'fine porcelain'. However, at the same time it remains anonymous. Why, aren't they proud of who they are? What are they hiding? Why are they shouting "FINE PORCELAIN!" at us?

The gilding is hand done, but in a hurry..... "quick, get the next one done, we're on piece rate..."

The backstamp is very crisp and clear which suggests newer transfer technology.

I think this is mass production "FINE PORCELAIN!", not necessarily expensive ware and possibly not very old.

Could be Soviet block, behind the Iron Curtain era, or Far East.... who knows?

I'd love to know who this is. If you know, please post.

Regards

Peter (admin)

Comments for
"Y" with a small "s" inside Laurel Shield Fine Porcelain mark

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same mark Y inside wreath
by: Anonymous

I bought a tea set with the exact same mark - Y inside wreath. Very pretty with gold trim and 2 roses on the face. The finish is almost a shiny cream and rose color and very pretty. I haven't been able to find anything showing this mark and would love to know something about is as well.

Russian Crown
by: Liam Donaldson

Hi, I bought some demi tasse cups at a yard sale recently and they have the exact same marks. The lady I bought them from thought that they were Russian which ties in with one of your theories. The crown does look very much the Russian Crown - yes all crowns were different from country to country and eg Britain has distinctly different crowns for their king or queen. I was amazed to find out that the Russian Crown was "lost" in Ireland for about 30 years. The Russians were short of money after WW1 and Approached Michael Collins (yes same as the movie)and exchanged the crown for a loan of 25,ooo pounds. The crown was more or less forgotten about until 1948 when it was rediscovered in 1948. My countrymen were thinking of selling it (and probably should have) but decided to ask the Russians if they wanted it back. We gave it back and they gave us 25000. How much would that Crown be worth now. Anyway, back to the cups - I believe that they are Russian and may have made in a Soviet State pottery during the Communist era. Great site ! Thank you

Liam's Russian Clue fore the Y mark on fine porcelain item
by: Peter (admin)

Liam

Great post. Let's follow up some more on your lead.

By the way, I like your tangents about the Russian crown. We need more tangents like that, so no apologies. Takes an Irishman to realise exactly what this site is all about - "The Crack"!

So let's follow the clues and do some head scratching and chin stroking about where this leads.

The lady in the yard sale thinks Russian. Great circumstantial evidence. Yes, originally I thought this was a possibility as I said above.

So if you look at the next step and try to work out what the 'Y' stands for, you have to first look at the Cyrillic (Russian). In Cyrillic letters the Y stands for 'U' (as in the word Hula). There are no Russian factories I can find which begin with the letter U.

So let's assume, as the 'fine porcelain' is in English (otherwise it would say 'farfora' or 'фарфора') that the pottery mark is also westernised.

So we are looking for Russian ceramics factories beginning with the letter 'Y'.

There are only two on my list (which is pretty comprehensive).

continued below/.....

"Y" with a small "s" Pottery Mark
by: Peter (admin)

continued from above/....

First is Yerevan Farfor in Yerevan, Armenia. Founded in 1948, the factory was situated in the Armenian capital (also called Armfarfor). If you look at the marks and the wares from this factory they are completely different - roughly stamped marks in blurry ink - even to the 1980's, so unless they had a complete turn around (which is doubtful), not them.

The second is Yuzhnouralsk in the Chelyabinsk region of Russia, Founded in 1963 - also known as the 'South Ural Porcelain Works'.

The factory is named after the town which translates as "Southern Urals (town of)". The Russian word for South or Southern in the Cyrillic alphabet is "Южного", or when you say this in an English accent it sounds phonetically like "Yuzhnoural" or "Yuzhnava" (i.e. very close to the name of the town). So the small 's' within the larger 'Y' might be a reference to this duality of the Russian language.

This area of the Ural Region is known to have rich kaolin deposits. Kaolin is a key ingredient of porcelain, so this definitely fits in terms of "fine porcelain" production within Russia. Both the date, after 1963 fits the modern looking pottery mark transfer print, and the 'Y' letter also fits.

I can't find anything else out about this maker either online or in books at my disposal.

Let's assume for a minute that this 'Y' mark does belong to Yuzhnouralsk Porcelain of Chelyabinsk in the South Urals.

So speculation might run like this:-

The Soviet regime decides to go into exporting fine porcelain. They have rich deposits of kaolin in the South Urals. They open a factory there and name it after the town.

The decide they need the export revenue and make the pottery marks look western by using the English language. I don't know their range apart from the photo above, but I speculate it calls on the rich and fabulous history of the Russian Imperial porcelain wares (see my online china guide), whilst at the same time having the production values of a Lada car (i.e. none).

Just some ideas. If you know more, please post.

Thanks Liam for adding to this interesting thread.

Peter admin

Y with small S
by: brandy

i have a set of small tea cups and plates with the same Y and S on them the painting on them are of george washington and martha, my mother bought them at an auction, they are still in the original case, i was trying to find out what their worth is. If anyone could help!!

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The Forum Help Elf says:-

For valuation help and advice, please go to Peter's vintage and antique china values page

'Y' mark does belong to Yuzhnouralsk Porcelain of Chelyabinsk
by: The Forum Help Elf

As you can see, Peter's theory is that this mark, which is not listed in any of the standard pottery marks encyclopaedias, is that this 'Y' mark belongs to Yuzhnouralsk Porcelain factory of Chelyabinsk in the South Urals, Russia.

They would have been looking for export dollars primarily, so a US themed historic subject matter would be appropriate.

Anyone who can shed light (confirm or contradict) please post below.

H.E.

hummingbird NEW
by: Anonymous

Also have an item with y and s inside. I guess it is a tea cup,but there are no handles. The logo is a little blured. Has gold trim with oval shaped,inside is a hummingbird with flowers. Just curious about it.

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