Unidentified coat of arms pottery mark with two lions rampant

by Etta
(Bristol)

Unidentified coat of arms pottery mark with two lions rampant:- I've been clearing out my mother's house and have found lots of 'bits and bobs' that she has picked up over the years. This dish was on her window sill filled with pot pourri. I cannot find this mark anywhere. The pattern is obviously something to do with the Empire?

Any ideas?

Etta

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HOW I MADE MONEY FROM BITS & BOBS OF OLD CHINA
antique china values

.....more

Hi Etta

The answer to this one is not so obvious - although there are several older companies using a double lion mark, none of them look exactly like this mark. I need some time to think about this one....

I will publish anyway and with a bit of luck, one of our knowledgeable contributors will help out on this one – (check out the comments section below for replies).

I’ll try to get back to this one later. If you can’t wait and need to know soonest, use the expert referral service here:

Best regards

Peter (admin)

p.s. The following page is a 'must see' if you are researching fine china - for value and identification:-

Researching the identity and value of antique and vintage fine china.

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UPDATE:
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We have found the answer to what this beautiful collection is. It is modern reproduction, sold from a beautiful top-end Italian website anticheriproduzioni.com (likely made in China to the specification of the Italian designers who love the old traditional English look).

Scroll down to the last few posts on this page for more information
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end update

Comments for Unidentified coat of arms pottery mark with two lions rampant

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Me too!
by: Diane

I have a piece that I wanted to sell that also has this mark. I can't find anything anywhere that matches it.

Same Here!
by: Robin

I have a tea set with this mark and can find nothing! Help!

Lions Rampant Coat of Arms Mark Device on Antique China Server Dish
by: Peter (admin)

Hi Guys

I have now had time to have a quick look at this mark. There is no quick definitive answer to this mark, so I am going to start the ball rolling and show my research so far.

We all need to get our heads together to solve this one.

First, please send in pics of the wares to me here and I will publish here on this thread. Please send the pics to me and mark them as for the "Lions Rampant Forum Thread"

Here's my email:-

peteradmin@theclayartist.com

Here's what I know so far:-

This is a process of elimination.

The double lions rampant crest is mainly associated with the Coat of Arms of Eastern Bavaria which is a historic hot-spot for producing porcelain.

Several companies from this region used lions rampant in various forms - but none of them exactly like the one above.

Other countries also used the double lion motive, namely the US and the UK. It is fairly unusual for the UK makers to use the double lion because their national symbol is the lion and unicorn rampant of which there are literally thousands of examples. Many of the pioneering US porcelain and pottery making firms used German ex-patriot people to design and control production, so to a Bavarian symbol would not have been such a leap.

Here is a list of the firms using the lion rampant device:-

Bavaria

single rampant lion - Schumann of Arzberg Bavaria Germany

double rampant lion - Rother/Rieber & Co of Mitterteich Bavaria Germany

double rampant lion - Tettau/Beyreuth of Tettau Bavaria Germany

USA

double rampant lion - Steubenville Pottery of Steubenville, Ohio, USA

double rampant lion - Vodrey Bros of East Liverpool, Ohio USA

double rampant lion - Anchor Pottery of Trenton, NJ

UK

double rampant lion - Wood & Sons Ltd of Burslem, Staffordshire

double rampant lion - Ridgway of Hanley, Staffordshire

One final thought for now. The Japanese makers of the post war period were a dab-hand at mocking up European looking wares and pottery marks (particularly German) and making them look old and antique (as are modern Chinese makers).

There is something about the mark that reminds me of some of the made up marks I have seen. It is the graphic style and the printing method which gives me this impression. I wouldn't discount the fact that this dish might be from post-war Japan with a mark made to look German.

Please contribute with any ideas of your own.

Many thanks

Peter

Lions Rampant Forum Thread Photos
by: Greg

Hi here are some pics of the artifact. Needing any help you can toss our way.

These came from a little village in upstate New York
Thanks

Greg

two lions rampant pottery mark

A helpful link?
by: Greg

Here is an out of print book I found on Google Books

http://tinyurl.com/4uvyepn

Has some really old marks in it.

same two lions rampant pottery mark on teapot
by: Diane Mason

Peter!

Thank you for following up on this pottery mark. I am a novice at looking for these marks and I've exhausted my searching leads on the internet. I truly appreciate your curiosity for finding out what this oddity is!

I've attached a picture of the chocolate pot/coffee pot. If you need more pictures or close ups, please let me know and I will be happy to take more pics... this is just what I have right now.

Thanks again,

Diane Mason

two lions rampant on teapot

Lion coat of arms
by: Barb

I Just brought a tea set on a tray with two lions coat of arms the same as the one above. It doesn't say what it is, it only says unidentified.
Thanks
Barb

double lions rampant mark - more pictures of wares
by: Debra Causey

Hi,

I found your thread after just purchasing two pieces of china at an estate sale, I would like to know the origin as I'm a history buff, I don't care if it's worthless because it's so beautiful and unusual. I have provided photos which are attached below.

Thank you,

Debra

double lions rampant mark

Lions Rampant Pottery Mark on (Antique?) Fine China Ware
by: Peter (admin)

Lions Rampant Pottery Mark on (Antique?) Fine China Ware

Hi Debra

Many thanks for these very crisp and clear photos. These pictures help with another level of clues for us to cogitate on.

We are looking at trying to narrow down the options listed above; - the Bavarian fine china makers whose regional symbol is the double lion device; plus the UK, US and Japanese manufacturers who followed suit and used the same motif.

Looking at your photos the first thing that is clear the items are nicely made. There is quite a bit of skill in the making. Unfortunately, that doesn't help narrow down the options because all the above are very capable of making nice quality porcelain and semi-porcelain, as are modern Chinese makers. I think we can rule out bone china due to the off-white colour.

Also, the other thing about your pictures is they do not show much evidence of age. The items are almost too clean and pristine to have been hanging around that long.

One thing for sure is these makers are dealing in well made reproduction items. In other words, in looking at Debra's photos we can conclude the period scenes depicted and the Rococo decorations applied are not contemporary with the date the items were made.

This factor might be more consistent with later 20th Century Japanese wares and modern Chinese manufacture than the UK and American makers listed above, who were more often than not designing wares relating to current trends of the day - the fashions of the moment.

These items of Debra's are blatantly trying to look historic - specifically of the Rococo period of the 1700's. This practice did sometimes occur with the UK and US makers mentioned above, but the difference is, the particular double lion rampant mark we are trying to identify is not ever shown in any of the mark references for any of these companies - not in any of the books or online resources I have at my disposal.

One of the Bedford Works marks of Ridgway from the 1930's looks quite similar, but there are marked differences - and I have only ever seen this mark with the words "Ridgways Bedford Works England", which is quite unequivocal.

Similarly, the double lion marks of Bayreuth have the words "PT Germany" or "Royal Beyreuth, Bavaria".

Having looked at this mark and the range of nice quality fine china which the pottery mark is applied to, I feel this mark is most likely modern Chinese or mid to late 20th Century Japanese.

Perhaps the biggest clue to the this is the fact that this mark is trying very hard to look old, yet there are no references to it anywhere in the whole world either on or offline, except on this forum.

Thanks for these great clues Debra.

Peter

Pottery Mark with 2 Lions on a coat of arms
by: Debra Causey

Hi Peter,

Thank you so much for your quick response. I should have mentioned that there were two other pieces at the estate sale that I did not purchase but also had this exact marking. I was able to find a photo posted on their website so I'm attaching it as well (see below). The two items are the white and green lidded pieces.

Thank you again and I'll keep you posted as my research continues.

Debra Causey

FIGURINES SCULPTURE

Two Lions Rampant
by: Anonymous

I have been selling pottery and glassware for over 20 years. I have a teapot with the mark and can tell you it is very recent. I believe it is a china or japan company trying to make things in an older vintage style - not necessarily reproduction but more decorator type looks. Although I do not value them as antiques, they are still decorative and have a market - most pieces would sell in my shop around $20-$30. My best guess is circa 1990-present.

So do I
by: Armando

Hi all,
i have a same object that show two lions rampant.
The mark is the same.
I'm writing from italy. Are all sure that it's a fake?

same marking on brand new design
by: Kristen

If it's any help, I just purchased a teacup with this symbol on it, and the shop owner (who I know knows her stuff) said it was a recently released design. If I find out from her what company it is, I will re-post...

Double Lion Crest Mark
by: Peter (admin)

Hi All

I think we can conclude that all the evidence points to the fact that this is modern production from China. The maker, who is, as yet unidentified, uses the latest technology to produce very nice looking and good quality replicas of older looking wares. They have developed a pottery mark reminiscent of older European marks (see the prior post of mine which lists the various makers using the double lion crest).

This technique of using European looking marks which give no clue as to who the maker actually is, is a typical trait of Far East manufacturers in the mid to late 20th century and the 21st century.

I wouldn't say these wares could be correctly described as 'fakes' as such, they are modern reproductions. The problem is with sellers who muddy the waters and try to pass them off as antiques.

Peter (admin)

Mystery Solved
by: Debra Causey

I have been checking ebay and Etsy to see if I came across any other pieces that were similar to the cake stand that I had purchased at an estate sale this past summer. Last week I found 3 brand new cake servers with this exact marking that are identical in design but have a toile pattern so the mystery is solved.

Thank you Peter for all of your help.

Debra Causey

Double Lion Crest Pottery Mark
by: Armando

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MYSTERY SOLVED !

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It isn't the mark of modern reproduction Chinese porcelain, but the mark of a specialist Italian furniture reproduction (and other reproduction interior accessories including fine china porcelain)

http://www.anticheriproduzioni.com

Mystery is solved.

Thank you all

Armando

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Peter (admin) says:-

Hi Armando

Great shout out - thanks. I looked on the site and can see this is exactly the type of maker - high quality modern reproduction of quality historic items for interiors. Actually, typical grand Italian taste. Beautiful! I didn't see the actual mark on the site anywhere, but I guess you must have further knowledge on this.

The only thing I would add though is that my guess would be the fine china items are, in fact, sourced from China. The prices shown on the website are wholesale, and this company would be hard pressed to get English or European makers to show those prices and make a profit if they were made anywhere but the Far East. Therefore, in this case, the concept, design and mark is of Italian origin, the actual make is like Chinese. I don't know this for sure though, so if anyone knows different, please post.

Peter (admin)

Armando for president.
by: Joe

Thank you Armando. This mark has been driving me crazy.

Just a reminder about the P.T. Bavaria Mark
by: Peter (admin)

I have just done a bit of research on the PT Bavaria mark - with a wreath and shield and this is a mark of the Tirschenreuth Porcelain factory from the town of Tirschenreuth. Also known as ‘Oberpfalz China’ on some of their marks.

Here's the mark in question:-

p-t-shield-wreath-tirschenreuth-oberpfalz-china

Here's what our German porcelain expert had to say about this mark in a recent report for a visitor appraisal:-

The shield wreath PT mark of the TIRSCHENREUTH PORCELAIN FACTORY was used c.1900 – c.1927, or so say all reliable reference authorities on the marks used by this factory. This quality maker was founded originally in 1838, and taken into the larger HUTSCHENREUTHER Group in 1927. They were also known as ‘Oberpfalz China’ which they used on certain marks. Your pattern is a fairly standard transfer print pattern for the period and would not necessarily be sought after at auction, so the average hammer prices remain quite modest considering the age and quality. Average auction prices are quite typically less than the retail/replacement prices (retailers have warehouse costs, staff overheads and stockholdings etc).

me also!
by: jacki

My plate has the exact same marking but has B & B underneath it. Help!!!!

I have a tea set with this mark
by: Jackie

I purchased a beautiful blue and creme teapot with four large footed cups while on a trip to Westport, Canada around 2005. It has the same mark as shown in the above posts. I have since returned every year but was unable to find any more like it. I adore this set - it is my favorite but until now I have not been able to find any information on it. Does anyone know if it is safe for steeping tea? I have read a recent post on eBay regarding peices such as this that are strictly for decorative purposes because of the high lead content. I have been serving tea to my family almost daily from this teapot and I am now concerned. Any information on the lead content of this type of teapot and teacups? Is it meant for decoration only or is it actually meant for use? Thanks for any info you have!

tea set two lion heads
by: Anonymous

have a beautiful tea set i bought from a yard sale same marking ...does anyone one how much can i sell it for....

Double Lion Rampant:
by: Michelle

Hi Everyone!

Thanks for sharing. I have a tea set and a porcelain bag with this mark.
Someone please tell me something more precise!
My husband thinks I was duped.
I bought them in Venice.

Same mark on vase
by: Sabrina

I recently purchased a vase at a yard sale with this same mark and have been going crazy trying to identify it! It is clearly a reproduction piece, albeit lovely and I am glad I did not pay a lot of money for it! I'd like to add a phot but not sure if I can. . .

Unidentified coat of arms pottery mark with two lions rampant
by: Elaine

I have a complete tea set with matching tray, with the above stamp on the bottom of each piece. Would like info on this set, value? Will e-mail pictures. Thank you.

1891 McKinley Tariff Law
by: Anonymous

In 1891 the McKinley Tariff law dictated that all porcelain had to have a country of origin on it. This double headed lion mark has no country of origin on it. Please explain why if this is indeed a new or reproduction mark.

The Mckinlay Tarrif Act - How It Applies
by: Peter (admin)

The tariff law was amended in the 1930's and liberalized in 2002, so no longer applies as it did in 1891.

Also, in the mid to latter part of the 20th century, it was also very easy to work around for exporters who wanted to disguise the country of origin.

Allow me to explain....

The Mckinlay act of 1890 and the clarifications of the 1930’s allowed clever operators certain loopholes in the country of origin law.

Effectively, imported ceramic products from the 1960s did not have to have a printed/fired backstamp either under or over glaze.

Therefore reproduction items from China/Hong Kong only had to have a label indicating country-of-origin "in the same form in which it was imported" up to the point it reached the end-consumer. Once the 'end-user' had bought the item, the label could be removed, and of course, in time, sold on.

This wording of the law allows for many ceramic items from the Far East second made in the second half of the 20th century to be legally free of any need for country of origin labeling whist placed on the secondary market. It is not surprising we see many sticky or paper labels discarded.

Furthermore, unwrapped items were exempt from the country of origin laws, so if they were brought in without wrapping, the law did not apply.

Hope this gives an idea of how the import market works.

Peter (admin)

Double Rampant Lion Mark
by: Suzz

I checked out the webpage that was sited as being the answer to the mystery of this mark- Italian reproductions - however, I couldn't find anything with the mark on it. Did anyone else check it out?

I checked it out
by: Peter (admin)

Hi

Yes, I went to the Italian reproduction site a couple of years ago and they had this 'English' style range and mark. They no longer have the range and are now doing reproduction Tuscan pottery.

I guess they change the ranges every now and again.

Best regards

Peter (admin)

??? What is this mark
by: ArtistM

Purchased a creamer & sugar bowl on platter with handle. Red pattern. Would like to get the answer to this mark on the bottom. How do I post a picture?

Is this china safe to use in the Microwave
by: Kathryn in Louisiana

Thank you so much, Armando! I have been looking for the manufacturer of my China for 10 years. I bought numerous pieces from an antique store in Baton Rouge, Louisana, 10 years ago. I assumed the China was not a real antique because of the prices. I use this china everyday, I fed my children on this china. I use it in the microwave, dishwasher, etc. I do find the bowls break easily. My question is: Does anyone know if it is safe to use this china in the microwave?
I visited the Italian website which designed the china, but all they say is you can "use" it. This is not very clear. Please if anyone knows if safe to use in the microwave or not, please let me know?

Website not working
by: Misty

Hi. That website doesn't seem to exist now and I cannot seem to find when this article or thread was started. Did you happen to catch the name of the company that was manufacturing these items?

-------------------------

Reply by Peter (admin) Feb 2018

Hi Misty

The name of the company was Antiche Riproduzioni (translates from Italian simply as Antique Reproductions).

Yes, the website appears to have lasted only until 2013. I looked it up on an archive website and they were active from 2006.

It looks like a subsidiary of a 'Group' which had only one owner. So they sourced high quality furniture and ceramics from China and elsewhere. They would have had to buy in large quantities which would have had an effect on cash flow. They obviously got out of their depth and couldn't service the debt and went under - probably with quite a few creditors.

That's just guess work, so if someone knows different, please post and I'll correct.

Here's what the bottom of the website said (translated from Italian)

"Copyright © 2006-2013 Previous Reproductions.com All rights reserved. All contents of the Site and the Services
Anticheriproduzioni.com/it is copyright PDE Group Italia s.r.l. Copying, even in part, is prohibited.
PDE Group Italia s.r.l - Company with Sole Shareholder - Registro Reg. Verona companies at 03986590234
Share Capital € 10,000 I.V. - R.E.A. n. VR-382185 - VAT No. 03986590234
Privacy | Credits | Site Map | Venetian Furniture | Style Furniture | Style Furniture | Classic Furniture"

Best regards

Peter (admin)

Same symbol but says Germany underneath and the initials pt
by: Anonymous

My set has the same symbol but underneath it has p t spaced and says Germany

Cracker Barrel
by: Fine-dining-depot

This mark is found on some patterns that have been purchased at cracker barrel.. They made at least 2 red transferware pattern my store sells that have this stamp on some of the pieces, that were sold at Cracker barrel over the last 20 years. Modern pieces. This is a modern production from china that sells items to department stores now... I am positive. I sell china sets for a living:) They do not put the name of chinese company on the mark because they are wanting it to look older and European on purpose.

Unidentified dishes
by: Anonymous

I also have a tea set that has this on it, but it does have made in China underneath it.

It came from an antique dealer and I have been looking for the answers to this mystery.

Thank you very much for this article, it helps a lot, keep up the good work.

Debbie

Pottery
by: Anonymous

Top of two lions facing each other with a u in middle of them is1851 bottom of them something like QSTQ all of this is set in some sort of green maybe emblem like to no your thoughts

Teapot NEW
by: Jetskili

Hi, I have a teapot with that exact same mark the print is in red with a english or Italian church in the background. Trying to figure out how to post a picture for you.

unidentified mark NEW
by: Alice

Hi,
This mark is unidentified because it's a Chinese fake imitating genuine European marks with Lions/Crowns etc. I have seen it on items that also have fake impressed numbers.
Hope this is of some assistance.
Alice.

Fake Chinese marks NEW
by: Alice

Hi,
I had already commented on this but can't see it. No matter; This Lion Crown marks is fake Chinese. One doesn't need to peer too closely to see how undefined it is, rather smudged having been copied very badly. On various selling sites, it, along with copies of other well known genuine names such as Limoges, comes up regularly.
Alice.

Fake or real? NEW
by: Teresa

I have a pice with a similar label with 2 lios and a crest of arms, the difference is it has the initials.P ND T under the crest and under that it says Germany. I looked for the stamp and found similar ones for an old manufacturer, but that just had the crown and crest with the name of the company, no lions. Any ideas?
E

Chocolate tea set with image of child, blue NEW
by: MaryAnonymous

Trying to determine the age of an item I bought as old but unfortunately has the two lions and crown in the middle, under says made in china. Thinking I got screwed and bought a reproduction. Donating it to a good cause but would like to know what it is called. I have the pot, sugar, cream, two cups and very small tray, all same mark. Made in china. Thought I was buying an antique but not sure now. Anyway has like a child or baby on all pieces but tray. Any help would be awesome. Thanks

blue rose tea service. NEW
by: gayle green

maryanonymous, I too purchased a service set and it does have the lions facing each other with the head of a long haired man on each one. a shield and a crown .it has blue and off cream roses on. more cream than white on the inside. I too would like to know the resell value of this set. 1x big tray, 1x small cake tray, 2x cups, 2x saucers, sugar bowl and milk jug..

Blue Platter NEW
by: Sharron

I also bought a blue platter with a picture of what looks like the Castle de Angels in Rome in olden days. It has double lions holding flags with a shield in between and standing on ribbons.
It cost me $25 at a market in NSW Australia.
It is heavy and not fine china but I like it.

Unidentified two rampant lions mark
by: Teresa Babechenko

I found something you all might find interesting. You see, I have a plate that has this same green mark, except mine has the letters P T also. I remember searching for something else I own with the letters P T. A company called Tirschenreuth had these letters as well as the shield and crown. So , I looked up the company's history. They were taken over by a company called Hutschenreuther(who has a lion for a mark) in the 1920's. So, I am thinking they incorporated the two marks together. The following is a link to the website. Hope it helps! http://www.theoldstuff.com/en/porcelain-marks/category/189-tirschenreuth-marks

China made NEW
by: Anonymous

I found some beautiful pitchers with this exact marking as well as a "made in china" sticker.

Dinner Plate NEW
by: Becky

I have a lovely plate with this stamp/marker.

Two Colored Plate NEW
by: Ed F.

I have a 10 inch two-color plate, red and blue, that mimics willow ware. It is a Chinese scene in blue with about a two inch red border. Very attractive and very well done. The mark is the same as shown in these posts.

Unidentified coat of arms pottery mark with two lions rampant NEW
by: Deanne

Just found the "transferware" reamer on the Wayfair.com website - by AA Importing.

Two Lions Rampant NEW
by: Anonymous

Hi all, well I can confirm they are made in China as I have a lovely 8 piece tea set with Made in China and a Product code underneath the Emblem.

Very misterious piece of pottery (coat of arms with Russian inscription)
by: SixBlackCats

Hello, would you please help me to identify this porcelain mark from a plate I found in the depths of my in-laws basement?
My dad knows Russian a little and he says that the Cyrillic writing is more or less "Winogradow". I tried googling it but porcelain by Winogradow/Vinogradov is far from this date range. The black stamp is sellers mark it says (in Polish) "Bazar krajowy St. Goledzinowskiego w Warszawie al. Jerozolimskie nr 39" (shop name, owners name and address). Thats how I know its from 1910-1930's.
It is big, about 37cm diameter.

Any ideas?

Yea cup with the same markings NEW
by: Anonymous

I have a tea cup with the same markings of two lions holding flags with a crown in the middle and a ribbon on the bottom. There no writing in it let. The patent has an Acadian style house, farm animals, trees and children. I’m not concerned whether it is real or a reproduction. I think it’s beautiful and would like to be able to purchase matching pieces. Anyone know of where I can fine pieces to purchase?

Are you sure NEW
by: Anonymous

I do have them at Saint Mark the Forge Place they are all handpainted you can tell because they’re not exact and see different variations on each plate but they look so like you can’t tell from a distance they don’t seem old but I don’t know I’d like to sell mine as well are we for sure that this is an Italian reproduction

Pitcher with double lion mark NEW
by: Kristin

Just picked up this pitcher at a moving sale and am trying to identify. I believe it’s the same double lion mark.
How do I post pictures?

The almost the same
by: Shadzima

I have the same coat of arms. However, mine is slightly different. It is a three piece wash ben set. I bought it at a church garage sale. It was donated by a 96yr old member of the church. I will try to attach photos. I was curious if they had any value. I am trying to decide what to do with it.

Coat of arms mystery. NEW
by: K.Martin

I have a blue and white vase. Very lovely about 8" in height. Handles on upper opening. I could see small petals of flowers in it. The bottom has a very rich cobalt blue marking.Two lions- one on each side holding a flag. Faces look rather human.Crown and under that a coat of arms.No other coloring. Cobalt blue only. A gold stamp that has been placed on it that says made in China. No initials anywhere. What is this marking all about.

Mystery of the lions!
by: Emma

Hi there!

I was madly trying to find out too, as I bought a piece last week from an opshop . It is Antiche Riproduzioni 👍I think it’s worth a bit, depending on the rarity of the piece.
I just did a google reverse image search, and it came up straight away!

I’m new to this site. Just wondering how I post an image?

Thanks

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